Michael Davis Opens Mouth and Inserts Foot; Renato Leaves Watchgeeks

June 9, 2011

WHILE it’s old news now, it is still funny that Invicta Technical Brand Manager Michael “Fuckin” Davis became so interested in the undelivered Renato tourbillons by posting the following missive on watchgeeks.net. Interesting when one considers that Invicta is planning on releasing their very own Chinese tourbillons. One has to wonder if Invicta is sourcing from the same Chinese source. Might Invicta actually be impacting the delivery of the Renato movements by paying to jump ahead of Renato? It’s interesting that Davis says that people should cancel their orders. When are those Invicta tourbillons slated for release?

“First off, I want to say that I am writing this message as the founder of WatchGeeks, one of the former owners of WatchGeeks and the current Administrator/Managing Director of WatchGeeks. My current position with Invicta has nothing to do with this post or this situation.

Let me re-cap the situation as I see it and know it:

#1. Daniel Mink offered for sale a tourbillon approximately 2 months ago. Based upon stories later concerning fine tuning the power reserve and now a glitch and glitches, one can only make the logical conclusion that he knew these watches were not ready to be shipped out. Since Daniel does not have his own production facilities, he certainly knew that he did not have them in his possession. At this time, no mention was made that this was an advance sale or that the watches were not ready for delivery or that there was anything amiss with the watches, glitches or otherwise. Credit cards were charged and money was taken from customers.

#2. A single watch was sent to Jim Skelton for promotion.

#3. When people begin to complain about delivery of their watches, Daniel indicated that 50 of them had been sent out already and that the remaining units were “coming soon”. It is often noted how odd it is that no one on WatchGeeks received one of these 50 pieces even though a large number of members ordered them.

#4. Around the same time as Item #3 above, Daniel indicated that what was happening with the watches was fining tuning the watches and in particular the power reserve on the watches.

#5. A voucher was sent out to those that ordered the watches as a bit of compensation to those that waited on the tourbillon and were experiencing the delays. Only problem is, the “fine print” included a stipulation that the use of the voucher would negate the ability of the holder of the voucher to cancel their tourbillon and get their money back.

#6. A member here posts that he spoke to Renato customer service at about the 4 week point and was told to expect another two months or so of delay on the delivery. A couple of other members then confirm this same timeline.

#7. At this point I contact Daniel directly to address the issue. He tells me that customer service never said this and that delivery of the watches was close. He was out of the country and it was late there. He told me that he would call me the next day and that an update would be going out on WatchGeeks.

#8. Daniel never did call me back. Or email me. Or communicate with me in any other way. He did make a post here a few days later indicating that the watches would be shipping to customers in approximately 2 weeks.

#9. It is now, as I write this, two weeks later and the watches have not shipped. An additional update has now been made indicating that there will now be additional weeks before delivery begins.

#10. In the update referenced in Item #9, references to “glitches” are now being made. A “glitch” is not tweaking the power reserve of the movement to get a longer reserve time. A glitch or glitches are problem(s) with the movement. Certainly not the excuse that was originally given as to the delay of the piece.

Bottom line, this is NOT acceptable behavior for someone using this site as a means to promote their site and the pieces they sell. We are now right at 2 months into a wait on these pieces. Only 150 were made. A competent watchmaker can build 3 to 4 tourbillons per day in a standard work day. I even went so far as to verify this with another vendor on this forum that has extensive experience building the exact same movement. Again, only 150 of these tourbillons were made. Do the math how many times a small team could assemble, disassemble and then reassemble these 150 watches.

If a member came on here and was selling watches and following the same steps as Renato, we would have banned them long ago. We have rules in place for our sales forum that prevents people from selling watches that they do not have and cannot send out as soon as the financial transaction is made. And we do not give members 2+ months to send the watches to the people that pay for them. Our rules (TOS) for the sales section of this forum are there to protect the sellers and the buyers. And while Renato did not sell their watches via our site, they did receive promotion via this site to facilitate their sales. I cannot help but feel that our sales TOS/rules apply at least in spirit to any vendor that comes here and uses this site to market their products.

It is my initial thought to ban Renato from this site. However, I don’t have the time to deal with this issue right now. I am on the eve of departing on a vacation combined with a birthday trip. It is my personal recommendation to those awaiting delivery of said tourbillon to cancel their order. While I may not be the biggest watch industry expert in the world, I have (of the course of two years in this industry) gained some level of expertise. I am completely and totally uncomfortable with this situation and how it is playing out. Something on many different levels is just flat out wrong. But, that is just my personal opinion. Officially, I will say that this issue needs to have a resolution by June 15th. If it has not been resolved, then Renato’s ongoing participation on this site is probably going to be gone. Again, we would not tolerate even the smallest part of the actions of Renato when applied to those using this site to sell watches. Whether handled incompetently or be it something else, this situation is just wrong on many, many different levels.

I know Renato has many loyal fans here. That is great. I became a fan of their brand and a customer of theirs shortly after they arrived at SNBC. At one point, I owned 30+ Renatos. For those that have been involved in the watch forums for a while now, they will remember that I was banned off of another watch site (where I had been an administrator) in large part due to my loyalty to Renato and speaking out on their behalf and defending them. And, I know Daniel and his partner personally. I have spent time with them in MN at SNBC as well as in FL. I do not take this decision lightly. But, I have to go with what I feel is right for this forum. No one is saying you can’t be a fan of their brand or their customer. But, if they wish to continue to participate here, then their actions must justify that ongoing participation. This tourbillon issue is not acceptable.

I will be in touch with you on a final resolution to this matter on or about June 15th.

Thank you for your time and for reading this very long post.”

Daniel Mink was made aware of the Invicta Technical Brand Manager’s comments and his response was:

“…it has been dealt with. You wont here from his dumb mouth again”

IN usual watchgeek fashion, the post is reported to have disappeared.

———-update 2:57 PM—————

It’s official; Renato is out at watchgeeks just like Skelton! Via watchlords.net:

“Renato Email sent this afternoon

Dear Friend,

It is my pleasure today to announce to you three major milestones in our history that we would like to notify you about.

1. Renato Watches is no longer part of WatchGeeks.net

Renato Watches is no longer part of the WatchGeeks.net forum. This was a mutual decision as Renato intends to launch it’s own forum http://www.renatogeeks.com in thirty days. On this site, our loyal fans will be able to openly & freely discuss any topics regarding Renato Watches as well as be privy to brand new up coming designs, sneak peeks and etc. These are all things that we were not able to do onwatchgeeks.net for various reasons. Our forum will feature many exciting sections including one where members can display and trade/sell watches to other members.

While Renato is no longer listed on watchgeeks.net and our new forum is being created. Please feel free on the meantime to contact me via email (daniel@renatowatches.com) or facebook (Danielmink) with any questions you may have.

2. The Renato Affiliate Program

Over the past seven years, many of you have purchased many of our timepieces and have built significant collections with them. In lieu of this, you have become our best advocate and testimonial. Therefore, in the coming week, we at Renato plan to launch the Renato Affiliate Program (RAP).

With this program you will be actually earn money by simply referring our timepieces to your friends, family and associates. From then on, you can earn up to 20% of every purchase they make! Details will be sent to you next week on how to join and start earning cash.

3. Live stream Renato Shows

In the coming months, Renato Watches will launch shows online featuring myself along with special surprise guests from the watch industry to launch brand new collections. These shows will be streamed online at http://www.shoprenato.com.

In honor of these special events mentioned above we have decided to increase our current voucher promo TU770 from 20 to 27% off currently listed prices. This will be in affect for just 48 hours and then it will go back to 20%….

Make sure to take advantage of this window of opportunity and save even more money.

If you have any questions, please free to reach out to me via email (Daniel@renatowatches.com) or via Facebook(Danielmink).

All the best,

Daniel Mink
Renato Watches, Inc.”

Watchgeeks is slowly starting to look like myspace circa 2007…


26 Responses to “Michael Davis Opens Mouth and Inserts Foot; Renato Leaves Watchgeeks”

  1. krane11367 Says:

    Michael Davis – he who famously hid on his own website for about two weeks following IWG’s initial gray movements/Dubois Dupraz debacle – is now damning and banning Renato from WatchGeeks.

    Let’s think about this for a moment.

    As a “sales tool,” Invicta Watch Group purchases WatchGeeks.net, then has the “mods” of the site ban anyone who questions the brand’s mega-reported lack of service and/or quality control. Or for any other reason, including mods like Davis being on the rag that day.

    Next, the figurehead/father figure/carny supreme Jim Skelton leaves WG, and then, ShopNBC itself, in what Josh and Stan Schmenge would deem as “very mysterious circumstances.”

    Now, Michael Davis – the “technical brand manager” of a watch company without factories that has issued, without question, watches with gray movements from top manufacturers, then paraded around like they “teamed up” to bring the world new watch masterpieces; issued watches sold as “diamond” watches only to be found out to have crystals instead; issued watches touted as “genuine sandstone” only to be proven not have the material on the watch face; and perhaps most damningly, issued watches with the word “Swiss” on their faces with the words “Far East Assembly” and “China” on their movements – is all aghast – AGHAST! – that Renato could not deliver tourbillon watches to its customers on time.

    I rest my case. IWG and WatchGeeks both are so far past their shelf lives, they should be sold at Goodwill.

    Oh, and Watch Geeks? Enjoy your new Chinese Seagull and second-rate Sellita auto movements, coming soon on six value pays to a home shopping network near you.

    (Cue the sound Wile E. Coyote hurtling off the cliff…)

  2. Watch Lords Says:

    Davis is not better than Skelton. Eyal no better than Mink

  3. Hymen Broth Says:

    At least now I know what happened to my collection of 35 year old scotch…damn you Davis, stop stealing my stash!!!

  4. Chief86 Says:

    So Minky says we won,t be hearing from Mike,s “dumb” but pretty mouth again, and now my reason for existing, wachgeeks.net is down !!!Did Minky get the place shut down somehow ?

    Is he a more powerful mod than me ?

    That,s gay .

    Chief OUT !

  5. Fuzzy Wabbit@aohell.com Says:

    By the looks of the status of Wallyworld, I think Mink has some pull. WatchGeeks has been shut down for 2 days without any updates from the pwers that be. Looks like Davis’s stupidity finally caught up with him.

  6. Ass-Troop Says:

    Who would of known that the industry of watches and watch salesman and watch mod’s would be so god damn soap opera like.

    What a bunch of self-centered pussy’s, a real collection of whining infants.

    Holy freaking molASSass asses confuse the masses I’m so sick I got gasses and I am almost late for my classes but I can’t find my glasses but let me passes my Chinese watches in the trashes!!

  7. Anonymous Says:

    Sounds like a lot of people aren’t as important as they thought.As far as Daniel Mink goes I know that funeral home looking MOFO will go down in flames someday! These are all little fish that want to be big fish and make a difference in an industry where they are not even a blip!

  8. Anonymous Says:

    Chief, you’re just as much of a tool as Davis. You think your mod status on that lame ass forum actually means anything to anyone but you? You’re nuts…. You’re just a little fish in a little pond… get off your lame ass ego trip you schmuck.

  9. Twat Waffles Says:

    OHHHHHHhhhhhh GOD!!!

    YeSSSSssss, that chief is for sure a ball licking foreskin loving tool!!!

    But strangely, something tells me Davis has inserted other things into his mouth other than his own foot.

    And we all know chief has Davis’s foot in his poop shoot as we speak.

    AWWWWWWWwww WAAAAAaaaaaaahhh don’t cry chief, just go shine your Invicta’s and your collection of John Tesh cd’s.

  10. Tyler Says:

    Now I see why watchgeeks is down, good luck Michael, hopefully ‘Big and Tall’ needs a ‘technical brand manager’…

  11. Anonymous Says:

    I am glad to see that jew boy Daniel Minkowitz gone, he is nothing but trouble everywhere he go’s, people now are having trouble getting their money back from that Tourbillion Debacle deal !

  12. Steve Says:

    That jew boy Daniel Minkowitz of Renato is nothing but trouble everywhere he goes, people are still having trouble getting their money back from that Tourbillon Debacle.

  13. Daffy Dick Says:

    Take it easy, take it easy .

    Let’s put ethnicity on the back burner.

    This is about the TRUTH ultimately!!

    It doesn’t matter the ethnicity of a person or business, it’s the truth that matters people.

    Now after saying that, I gotta go sniff my ski burned drawers, and the back of my ears smell like parmigiana cheese.

    🙂 🙂 🙂

  14. elmer fudd Says:

    KOI…I know that 2 or more of these comments are made by KOI one or more of his minions….one of these days you will have the balls to venture out of your POND….but you would have to grow some balls for that but until then all we have is the cum sucking opinions of your ball sucking MINIONS…

  15. betterskills Says:

    This is the most “Metal Up Your Ass!” comment ever left on any of my blogs.

  16. offdip Says:

    Bichondaddy eats fat dicks.

  17. JOE Says:


  18. betterskills Says:

    Who is Daniel? The illiterati that left the last comment? Who gives a shit?

  19. Steve A Says:

    As I write this it is Jan 29th 2012 and there is still no news on the Tourbillion I am probably past stupid for hanging on this long but last word from Danny is that they are a comeing!.


  20. Anonymous Says:

    YOUR ALL wieners!!!! God have you nothing better to do? I can’t believe I wasted 5 minutes reading this shit!! hahahahahaha

  21. lauren bacal Says:

    stuoid minds think alike they dont

  22. Doc Says:

    I think yer all fucked………

  23. betterskills Says:


  24. Assy Crumpets Says:




    Ok, got that out of the way, now I can begin.

    Foolish people spend their $$ on lots of useless junk, keyword is junk.

    Some folks like to get away, take a holiday from the neighborhood, or just sit back and purchase junk in a watch box.

    I, on the other hand prefer to deal with the reputable, the honest, and the collectible.

    Let’s line up all the peeps that buy without integrity, and make a pile of all the timepieces they have bought, then get a couple of sickly Giraffe’s that were out all night on a bender eating Taco Bell & KFC, and let them drop diarrhea all over them, then after that these poor excuses for watches will be worth something.


  25. krane11367 Says:

    Bichon Daddy the biggest walking embarrassment this hobby has ever seen. Clueless and utterly stupid aren’t always exclusive, but he turns both into an art form. Get the fuck outta my hobby, douche nozzle.

  26. Bigelow Schwartz Says:

    It is a pleasure to see that Invicta and ShopHQ both had the good sense to fire an ex-con who served 5 years of a 25 year sentence. I could never understand how that unattractive, obnoxious, repulsive ex-con could represent a watch company on a shopping TV show.

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